Recommendations for air assist compressor? [Archive]

Author: Janey

May. 27, 2024

Machinery

Recommendations for air assist compressor? [Archive]

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John Bronleewe

Samuel Espy

John Bronleewe

I plan to purchase this one (http://www.tcpglobal.com/itemdetail_AB.aspx?itemno=MAS+TC-33) for $120 in about a month or so when I pull trigger on laser purchase. Obviously I can't vouch for its performance yet. However, it is the big brother of one Dee Gallo suggested in an earlier thread and numerous people seemed to like. It is 1/5 hp and slightly larger CFM rating. Even the bigger brother is only 47 db (same as the smaller one) which is a really quite noise level.
Thank you. I had just pulled the trigger and ordered this one (http://amzn.com/B002JPPFJ0) based on an old thread here. It'll arrive tomorrow and at least get me by temporarily. I'll be sure and post about how much I like or dislike it for use with the laser.

Jerome Stanek

Thank you. I had just pulled the trigger and ordered this one (http://amzn.com/B002JPPFJ0) based on an old thread here. It'll arrive tomorrow and at least get me by temporarily. I'll be sure and post about how much I like or dislike it for use with the laser.

Thats the one I have and it works very well. I have a 5hp 80 gal unit for when I need a lot of air.

Kit Dumph

Can I get an update on this pump? How do you regulate psi coming out or even tell, without adding an inline gauge? I have a helix inbound and am looking at pumps.

Ross Moshinsky

Can I get an update on this pump? How do you regulate psi coming out or even tell, without adding an inline gauge? I have a helix inbound and am looking at pumps.

Regulator.

David Somers

John,

I don't have a laser yet so cant speak about vacuum pumps there. But i do use a pump for a vacuum chuck when i turn wood on a wood lathe. Obviously, with a bowl spinning at least at several. Hundred RPMs i need to know that my vacuum is adequate to hold the piece. So i do use an inline pressure guage. I have a simple ball valve to regulate the pressure.

I could be all wrong, but it seems like something you would want on your laser vac table as well? At least if you have a pressure gauge you can see if your vacuum is dropping to the point where it will be ineffective, and you could pause the laser and correct the problem before you started damaging pieces. This is a total guess on my part though. An inline gauge, valve, and a set of filters for dust would not cost much at all. With parts available at Home Depot in the aisle with the air compressors.

Is my thinking off on this everyone? Am i being a worry wort since i am used to spinning bowls?

Dave

Rich Harman

Regulator.

I don't think a regulator is the right thing to use. A regulator will restrict the flow causing the pressure to build on the pump side, so would a ball valve. I use a tee with a gage, ball valve, and dump hose.

The hookup goes like this; pump>hose>tee>ball valve>open ended hose. Off the tee: >another tee (with gage)> hose to laser.

With the ball valve fully open nearly all the air gets dumped via the dump hose. As you close the valve more pressure goes to the laser. With the ball valve fully closed, max pressure goes to the air assist. With this system, the pump never gets overloaded.

Kit Dumph

Anyone try this one out yet? Seems you might cut down on some of the heat and abuse on the pump with the tank. Two year warrant isn't half bad either... Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/BD38AA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A23ADOZFIJNPFB).

Dave Sheldrake

Have a look at the duty cycle on whatever compressor you choose, CFM is rarely free air, it's cylinder displacement, FAD (Free Air Delivered) will be a smaller figure at a given pressure.
Air brush compressors are designed to be used in an open system, if the air on your machine has an on/off as it runs you risk overheating it and burning it out.

cheers

Dave

Stuff like these are good

http://szdental.en.ec21.com/Products--.html

Kit Dumph

Those are all pretty big, what about this little guy from harbor freight? http://www.harborfreight.com/16-horsepower-58-psi-oilless-airbrush-compressor--.html

Bill George

So how much CFM and PSI does one need?

Kit Dumph

I was told 30 psi by the epilog rep.

Rich Harman

I have been using a Gast 71R for over two years now.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=&d=&thumb=1

David Somers

Hey Rich,

Thar is actually the way mine is rigged. There is always full flow to the pump, just not to the vacuum chuck.

Dave Sheldrake

30 psi is a measurement of pressure Kit, The rep should be able to tell you the free air requirement

cheers

Dave

ps: on the bigger machines I use the 036a Junwei (sold as Titan here) one compressor to each machine.

Kevin Gregerson

Hello all!

I have an Epilog Mini 24 (60 watt) machine arriving tomorrow and I still haven't bought a compressor for the air assist. I know the rep mentioned a $300 "airbrush compressor" but I don't have any more details and I'd love to pick up something ASAP. Any specific brand and model recommendations? Thank you!

http://www.homedepot.com/p/California-Air-Tools-6-3-gal-1-HP-Ultra-Quiet-and-Oil-Free-Steel-Tank-Air-Compressor-/?cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-&ci_sku=&ci_gpa=pla&ci_src=&gclid=CMmS3Y-t8cACFUxqfgodYngAJw

Your rep didn't give you a link to a product??? Not a very good rep.....

Kit Dumph

Gave me links for everything else, but suggested either find a 30 psi or just get the epilog one. I'v heard a lot of good things about that compressor, but I was hoping for something smaller.

Dave Sheldrake

You will need to know 30psi at what volume (flow rate) Kit, even a cheap $5 balloon pump can push 30psi.

cheers

Dave

Bill George

You will need to know 30psi at what volume (flow rate) Kit, even a cheap $5 balloon pump can push 30psi.
cheers
Dave

Usually rated at CFM (cubic feet per Minute) at so many PSI or free air. Those larger oil free with vanes are usually noisy.

Dave we never hear about your remodeling progress? Having done remodeling in the past I can only imagine. But mine were never in a 400 year old house. The oldest house I had to do work in was just 90 years.

Kit Dumph

hmm my searches for CFM for a 50 watt helix haven't turned up much yet. I'll the rep tomorrow and see.

Dave Sheldrake

Bill, its about 18 months work :)

Thats why I'm not about much these days :)

Kit, soon as you know the CFM requirement let us know and a suitable compressor will follow :)

cheers

Dave

Ross Moshinsky

You don't need to know CFM. The volume we're talking about is negligible. We're talking about a tiny hose that is only a few feet long. "Any" compressor is going to be able to provide a constant 30psi under those conditions. 30psi is the same whether you use a big compressor or little compressor as long as the volume is the same. The only way you'd need to even look at CFM is if you decided to run a long hose from the compressor to the laser and that's simply because you're increasing the volume significantly.

When picking a compressor for a laser, you're looking at duty cycle and noise. A low quality air compressor will have a low duty cycle (not want to run all the time) and will be noisy. A high quality air compressor will have no problem running constantly and do so at a comfortable volume.

As for using a regulator, there should be no concern. Running the compressor with a constant bleed is not exactly ideal. The compressor has to overcome a constant pressure loss which I'd almost guarantee is more taxing than restriction.

Bill George

Actually CFM and PSI do make a difference in the selection of any air compressor. Since not all lasers are the same and the size of the nozzle opening where the air exits vary from unit to unit. A longer pipe or hose, causes pressure drop which not only reduces the pressure but the cfm available. I would go with the recommendation of the laser manufacturer as the needed psi and cfm. Lacking that, members who own the same machine usually can give feed back on what works for them. After the psi and cfm are considered, the running noise would be a big factor for me anyway.

Bill George

Bill, its about 18 months work :)

Thats why I'm not about much these days :)

Kit, soon as you know the CFM requirement let us know and a suitable compressor will follow :)

cheers

Dave

It looks beautiful as least from the outside! And its brick.

Dave Sheldrake

Granite blocks bill :)

Like you say the CFM value is essential, it will define things like duty cycle limits :)

cheers

Dave

Pete Simmons

Those are all pretty big, what about this little guy from harbor freight? http://www.harborfreight.com/16-horsepower-58-psi-oilless-airbrush-compressor--.html

I have used this type for 10 years. On the second compressor now. First one lasted maybe 6+ years. Pressure / cfm - who cares? It is enough to calm the flame down on some items and is enough flow to make a difference when engraving. Depending on material I sometimes do not run it when rastering. I always use it when vector cutting. Works for me!

Kit Dumph

Ok guys, just got off with with epilog this morning. I need 1.1 CFM with 30psi max. Suggestions now?

Glen Monaghan

This is very similar to the little Harbor Freight airbrush pumps, just mounted on a tank. You can plumb a compressor to a holding tank yourself with a T and one or 2 valves (I have hose from pump to T, valve between T and tank, and a second valve between T and laser so I can run pump to fill tank, send air from tank to laser, send air from pump to tank and laser, and cut off tank from both laser and pump to save built-up air for another session).

The nail salon type of compressor that Dee has mentioned is a similar arrangement but only has a tiny tank inside the case.

Main issue is that the small pumps run progressively longer to fill larger tanks and to try to restore pressure as soon as you start sending air from tank to laser so, really, the pump tends to run all the time unless you manually shut it off and just let the pressure bleed down from the tank. So, if the pump isn't rated for 100 % duty cycle, it's going to get very hot fairly fast, likely leading to premature failure. It helps a lot to position a small fan to blow across the pump's cooling fins, which can reduce pump temps from scorching to merely hot.

Those little pumps will work, but you may wind up replacing them now and again, unlike something such as the Gaast pumps.

I've been thinking that I ought to try out the old sleep apnea blower that I no longer need... It's designed to run constantly and is whisper quiet. Not sure what the air flow is rated, but it subjectively feels like plenty of air volume and pressure...

Dave Sheldrake

Gast 72R Twin Cylinder as Rich said I think would be right, it gives 4cfm at 40 psi but a 50% duty cycle so will provide 2 cfm at 40 psi @ 50% duty.
A receiver would be good to keep a stable pressure and level out the duty cycle.

Air brush compressors simply don't have the rating or volume to do the job reliably, most are under 0.75cfm at atmospheric and will over heat (leading to wet air) very quickly.

What works in an acceptable way isn't always the best item to use, get a better system up to the job and there are big benefits

cheers

Dave

Rich Harman

Gast 72R Twin Cylinder as Rich said I think would be right, it gives 4cfm at 40 psi but a 50% duty cycle so will provide 2 cfm at 40 psi @ 50% duty.
A receiver would be good to keep a stable pressure and level out the duty cycle.

The Gast pump is rated for continuous duty, I don't use a storage tank. In fact, they recommend against starting the pump under pressure.

Bill George

The Air Brush compressors I looked at HF online seemed to be about .5 to .7 CFM, much lower that what you will need at 1.1. The other option is to buy a standard larger one as suggested and then use a good regulator to drop the PSI down to the 30 you need. Glad you waited and got the specs for the one required.

Dave Sheldrake

The Gast pump is rated for continuous duty, I don't use a storage tank. In fact, they recommend against starting the pump under pressure.

even better, that will keep it nice and cool if it only has to provide 1.1 cfm at pressure. Not many pumps like to start under load, hence the venting on most commercial tank systems to ensure the pump starts into an open line.

cheers

Dave

Rich Harman

The other option is to buy a standard larger one as suggested and then use a good regulator to drop the PSI down to the 30 you need. Glad you waited and got the specs for the one you need.

Do NOT use a regulator unless it is with a compressor with storage tank and auto shutoff.

Kevin Gregerson

Ok guys, just got off with with epilog this morning. I need 1.1 CFM with 30psi max. Suggestions now?

The one I linked above will meet your needs and it's quiet which is more than I can say for a lot of other compressors out there. Clean dry air is what you really want to add into your laser source and having something with the ability to deliver more than the suggested CFM is what you want when it comes to most materials. I've met a number of folks who've gone as far as putting in larger lines, openings, etc to get more air through the system.

Bill George

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Do NOT use a regulator unless it is with a compressor with storage tank and auto shutoff.

I guess that was understood as the larger compressors come with tanks and pressure switches. Yes my big shop compressor is rated at 9 or 10 CFM (at least) and I run a oil filter and air drier, but somehow I think that's over kill for my laser : ).

Rich Harman

I guess that was understood as the larger compressors come with tanks and pressure switches.

This discussion has mentioned all kinds of pumps and compressors. Not everyone reading this forum will know when a regulator is not appropriate. I assumed by "standard larger one" you meant a regular compressor like you would get at a borg but it could have been interpreted to mean a larger airbrush or aquarium pump type.

Kevin Gregerson

I have been using a Gast 71R for over two years now.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=&d=&thumb=1

Great compressor!!! Not exactly on the lower price equation though. I think those start at 500 last time I checked the grainger catalog.

Rich Harman

Great compressor!!! Not exactly on the lower price equation though. I think those start at 500 last time I checked the grainger catalog.

Yeah, Grainger is never cheap. I got it off eBay, brand new for $225. There is a 220V Gast 71R555 on eBay now for $249 - you should look up the model number to be sure of the exact specs - I'm sure it would work well though.

Kev Williams

Anything that blows air will work. Like, a "regular" air compressor, and a $20 pressure regulator?

Found this on Rabbit Laser's website, for $65, this is a bargain, and it's ALL you will ever need- I have a nearly identical one that came with my Triumph, it's quiet, it blows a ton of air at WO, and being a diaphragm pump, you can totally block the airflow while it's running and it doesn't care a bit...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/airpump.jpg

Rich Harman

Dave Sheldrake

That's an air pump Kev not a true compressor, while the FAD may be quite high (you can get the ACO series up to 500 litre versions (ACO480/550) ) the pressure is 7 PSI Max, for a western made laser that's like blowing over it by mouth and will achieve very little.

The air *pumps* are to reduce flame ups, NOT to improve quality of cut or efficiency.

Air (or compressed gas) is the *God* of all laser cutting, get it right and it makes 75% to 150% difference!

The only one on this thread that is suitable at semi reasonable cost is the one Rich posted or the larger tanked versions I posted.

cheers

Dave

Kit Dumph

Dave, Rich and everyone else- Thank you for all the input! The one epilog provides is a gast so I think I'll probably just go with that one.

Bill George

So I am using the "air pump" that Kev posted. So is there an advantage to going with more pressure and CFM on a small Chinese laser like I have? I have a large shop compressor I could hook up via a tee and then install a good regulator.

Kev Williams

I've never noticed air ever did anything for my cutting as far as improving the cut or efficiency. But then, I don't cut all that much stuff.

So back to my first statement, it puzzles me that very few people on this forum seems to own a regular air compressor...? I've never been without one, just too many uses for 'em. And as for lasering, with 125psi on tap, you WILL have enough air ;)

David Somers

Jerome Stanek

Bill George

I just ran a test to see what the difference between the air pump that came with my LG500 laser and my big shop compressor. I ran the big compressor at 20, 30, and 40 psi and what ever the pump runs and the pump did the deepest cut into 3/4 thick acrylic.

You mean the little diaphragm pump pictured above for a mere $65 did as well (or better) as one with more CFM and PSI set at 30 Psi? I was going to try more or less the same thing, but you saved me the trouble.

Air compressors in general, I have had one type or another all my life. I even carry a little one in my truck that works slick off 12 volts and will pump up a car or truck (pickup) tire just fine.

My shop air compressor has filters and an refrigerated air drier, was used at one time to supply air to a CNC plasma cutter.
With the 60 gallon tank, I doubt if the compressor would cycle on very often.

Jerome Stanek

That is what I am saying I have a 60 gallon 5 hp unit that I bought new from an Auto paint supplier and the little pump did just a little better I was going to try 45 PIS but the hose blew off the laser.

Juan de Dios

Hi, I'm new in the forum and new with a laser machine too, I'm also looking for a compressor but I'm a little lost, my 100W laser came with an aquarium compressor which gives 70 l/min at .035 MPa, I'm trying to remove the burning when cutting 3mm MDF and tried with my shop compressor and the difference was huge, I could cut faster and with no burning, so now I'm looking to purchase a compressor for the machine but I'm not sure if I need more pressure, more air or both, I was looking a bigger version of my current aquarium compressor, but those give a lot more l/min at almost the same pressure, would something like this work? any recommendations for this?

Rich Harman

I just ran a test to see what the difference between the air pump that came with my LG500 laser and my big shop compressor. I ran the big compressor at 20, 30, and 40 psi and what ever the pump runs and the pump did the deepest cut into 3/4 thick acrylic.

What was the difference in depth? I've never noticed any difference in ability to cut using different pressures. I know that my Gast pump is far better than an aquarium pump for cutting. With my setup the air assist keeps flames from occurring on the bottom side as well as the top - the aquarium pump can't do that.

There are so many variables in play. How is the air delivered? Coaxially through a nozzle, or from a separate tube aimed at the cut point? How far from the surface, how big is the nozzle? How long was the hose coming from your compressor?

Kevin Gregerson

Dave Sheldrake

Teat from baby bottle with 1.5mm hole punched in it, move air closer to job and controls laminar flow

Effect on MDF

cheers

Dave

Kevin Gregerson

Teat from baby bottle with 1.5mm hole punched in it, move air closer to job and controls laminar flow

Effect on MDF

cheers

Dave

You sound like a happy man. Glad you figured out one of the better tricks to hacking thee laser.

Kev Williams

Kev,

I may be wrong, but I think the concern with a shop style air compressor on a laser is the potential for spraying oil and/or water into the laser? Most of us with shop compressors could care less for what we use them for. But in the laser either of those things would be poor. Can anyone confirm or correct me on this please?

Not to mention these things tend to be very noise. The thought of my compressor running a lot over a long day is not pleasant. Doable, but not pleasant.

Dave
Depends on your shop as to whether you feel the need to have a big compressor. I couldn't live without a compressor. My dad's ALWAYS had one, which means I've always had one. Several, actually. Lots of air powered tools available for the average joe too. Air-over hydraulic jacks, impact wrenches, air-ratchets, chisels, drills, sanders, grinders, cutoff saws, buffers, sandblasters... :)

As for the oil/water thing, a water trap and/or an air dryer fixes that problem.

As for noise, our big Coleman is BIG, and NOISY- But, it's outside in an insulated plastic 4x6 shed, right next to the house, right under our bedroom window. We can barely hear it at 3 in the morning. It's not far from the neighbors's bedroom windows either, they never hear it. You can hear it if you're outside within 30' of it, but any farther away you actually have to listen for it, or you won't notice it. Our big HF dust collector that I use as an engraving chip vacuum is in the same shed, can't hear it either..

Dave Sheldrake

You sound like a happy man. Glad you figured out one of the better tricks to hacking thee laser.

It was obvious when I looked at my bigger metal cutters Kev, they have follow heads that retract between cut lines and far smaller exit holes (down to 0.3mm) it also reduced the amount of air I had to pump through the system :)

cheers

Dave

Bruce Dash

Kevin,
SO have you had any issues using an full size air compressor? I have a Bostitch 2.0HP\6.0 gal that I was thinking about using with a Husky Compressor filter to capture any moisture. The compressor already has a regular built into the unit so I can control the pressure with out any issues. It maybe a little noise but I can save a few bucks by using what I have.

Any thoughts from other.

Adrian Page

Dave Sheldrake

Hey Bruce,

I'm not familiar with the compressor you are on about but the biggest problem is duty rating, if it's a direct drive they are usually 50% duty although the air requirement of ULS machines is far far less than far eastern types.

I have a few scribbles for an air dryer here but I'll PM you a link as they are hosted on my own web site and posting would be outside of the rules.

cheers

Dave

Dave Sheldrake

I have a compressor like the one linked in post #4. It is inadequate for cutting plywood. I get much better cuts with my 5 hp shop compressor hooked to the laser. I have no idea how many CFM my laser head uses but I run 30 psi through the head. I like the baby bottle teat idea. I suppose the laser cuts the hole?

Adrian

I use a 2mm hole punch first on the teat to prevent melted silicone being blown back onto the lens Adi, works well but DON'T use it for engraving, it blows the much straight back on to the surface

cheers

Dave

Robert Bonenfant

Im guessing you Already bought one but I would suggest getting a larger compressor. I have one that holds aton of air so its not running the entire time your cutting. Ive burned out two brand new senco compressors in the past 4 weeks because it has to run the motor the whole time the machine is running. (15 hours of cutting means the compressor has to run for 15 hours )

Rich Harman

... I would suggest getting a larger compressor. I have one that holds aton of air so its not running the entire time your cutting. Ive burned out two brand new senco compressors in the past 4 weeks because it has to run the motor the whole time the machine is running.

...or get a small one rated for continuous duty.

Bruce Dash

Has anyone used a Bostitch 2.0HP\6.0 gal air compressor? I have one I use for my nail guns that has a built in regulator. My thought was I could add a filter to capture any moisture and dust. If need I could add an in line regulator as well. I know the compressor has a lot of power behind it but it is a continues run. If need I'll breakdown and hit harbor freight tomorrow, but from what Im reading I would need to ad a holding tank. I have a universal 350/50w. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Dave Sheldrake

I think it is Rich H uses a Ghast (spelling?) Duty cycles are essential, most direct drive are 50% duty cycle and will simply burn if you run them at 100%

Keith Colson

Typical direct drive compressors make a hideous and loud noise. I ruled out that type based on just the sound before I started. I think the first thing to consider is a quiet compressor because it is going to run about 30 to 60 percent of the time.

Also consider how moist the air is. Mirrors do not like moist air on them as that can cause the mirror to fail. I run an air dryer on my compressor for this reason.

Cheers
Keith

Bec Fogarty

Ah a thread I can actualy weight in on. We just went though the same thing we tried a samll 24L compressor but it was no good for my large machine we now are using a 100L V twin belt driven compressor with an inline pressure regulator and water trap. To make a successful change from the small one that came from the machine we had to install a pnumatic solenoid and relay so they air would tunr off when the machine is not running. Hope with helps.

Craig Matheny

Bill George

I use a California air Tools compressor Model #A it runs 12 to 15 hours a day feeds 2 epilog lasers with 30 psi of air 60 db very quiet and has been doing so for over 4 years the only issue I have is the water build up in the tank I have yet to figure out a way to put an auto drain on it.
Water in the air tank is normal. Get in the habit of draining everyday, automatic drains fail. I always put a brass 90 degree (if needed) and the rest of the piping in brass up to a ball valve out where you can get to and operate. If its under the tank you will forget to drain, put it out in the open.

Craig Matheny

Water in the air tank is normal. Get in the habit of draining everyday, automatic drains fail. I always put a brass 90 degree (if needed) and the rest of the piping in brass up to a ball valve out where you can get to and operate. If its under the tank you will forget to drain, put it out in the open.

Yeah but some times you forget and the auto drain just helps

Dave Sheldrake

Same....I'm terrible at draining the works receiver...the auto drain keeps blocking up (it's fed by a hydrovane screw compressor) and I keep thinking "Must make sure I drain the rc when I get in" and usually miss it till water starts getting through :(

Which one is the IDEAL compressor for a laser cutting ...

Originally Posted by speedy_j

Originally Posted by

How about nitrogen or CO2, can they be used with an air compressor?

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